Special interview with Jessica Lindsay Phillips

June 18, 2020 · Conducted by curator and art publicist Mia Raičević

There’s not a lot of women-identifying people out there selling tribal art let alone something as niche as Pop Tribal. These are spaces seen to be occupied by cis, predominantly men, and the public suffers access to this type of work precisely because of the colonial gate-keeping power structures that shape even how this work is presented. You being there, in that space, is it a sign of change?

It's not a lonely world and there’s a lot of great female collectors prior to me dealing in major collections that were understood, recognized, and mixed with tribal art by these women, and in modern times. There is always an aesthetic that we all look for when looking through our own eyes as a collector, and for myself, I don't like to look at gender in any way from it, and I tend to feel very accepted and supported by the changing of the older guard that's seen as collecting this. To look at, for example, Maureen Zeramber at the Tambaran Gallery in New York—she is and has been a major influence in the Tribal Art world for decades. She’s always been a great mentor and friend to me; and she told me when I started independently as an art dealer that people will tell you whatever you’re doing is wrong, but you’re doing it right for you and it doesn't matter what gender you are. 

As much as it’s great to be a game-changer, I think it’s important to not make it to be a reason behind the work. In the same way in that, I feel supported by this other generation because they know that there needs to be a change in how the artwork is represented, and I feel like I was just lucky to be exposed to this by (my partner) Billy, and now I’m able to bring beautiful artifacts into my friends’ and clients’ homes. I’m happy when I get to influence more women in the art world who may not have been exposed to this. It’s really important that, as people standing outside of the immediate power structures of the art world, we stick together because there aren’t many of us. It’s not something that a lot of women for example, stereotypically look to or collect. There’s a lot of power and sacrifice involved—beauty and a lot of extreme severity to it, or as you could say, a darker past—and see, that sometimes glossed over because in our immediate culture it’s just not, in quotations, feminine. But there is also sculptural beauty and elegance that the artists have captured in these items that is both impressive and awe inspiring.

I believe more women would collect  tribal art if they had more knowledge of it.

So, it is great to be able to be a female and say to the others in the community ‘this is beautiful’, ‘this also is something you can collect’, and ‘there is a major historical value to it’, because living with tribal art gives you the constant opportunity to travel to a different part of the world, at a different time in history.

That's beautiful.

It’s definitely always been a boy’s club, but because many types of tribal art have culturally been a boy’s club, the majority of this type of art was never supposed to be “seen” by women! Many sacred objects were kept hidden and only brought out during male only ceremonies. Many idols and objects, along with the ceremonies that were preformed with these artifacts, were never to be seen by women.

But here I am, living with it, celebrating it, and admiring it. I also look at it in the way of being able to influence people in understanding other cultures and history—the good and the bad. And there’s a lot of culture and history that isn't always celebrated because it has a female base to it, for example looking at African spoons to beer pots, Naga jewelry (Nagaland), which were things that were possessed and created by women.

As an example, look at 19th century Native American indigenous artifacts such as clothing,  baskets, and textiles—the women made these war shirts—and every single part of its creation represents something. Every part brings power, protection, or represents their livelihood and represents their culture, history, and family and who they are! And women are the ones that make these beautiful pieces that men end up collecting. So yes, there is a feminist aspect in collecting tribal art for me. 

Do you see yourself continuing to work within Pop Tribal as part of your trajectory? 

The term “Pop Tribal” was coined in 2007 in an article featured on Artnet, which currently represents the Phantom shields, which is just such an anomaly and beauty. I am sure that there is more art that falls into this category, and I look forward to discovering it.

 Although, I’ve had over a decade of experience, I still see myself as young in the industry and always learning. I believe in the long game and especially with tribal art, it’s about patience, and the longer you are in this industry the more that you know. I plan to be here for a long time and I think it’s important to keep this part of history exposed and celebrated for generations to come. It takes the same type of dedication as just about any type of art: paintings, pottery, anything. I see us as gatekeepers of the art, and we have to keep that alive. I’ll always be in the industry because I’m a collector first, and a dealer second. And that's also a difference in the way I look at art, it’s not just for the sale, it’s because I love the art.

That's great to hear. 

We are caretakers, we take care of the art and we take care of the history and what it represents so I'll always be in this—at what level, time will tell—but no matter, there is only gain in this industry, as I see it, if you keep learning, and I think I have that mentality that I always want to improve and there’s always something to learn. 

What can we expect to see from you in the near future?

I love doing thematic exhibitions and I really love to mix modern contemporary art with historical tribal art to help bridge a gap in understanding and to create a dialogue on art and history, and so I have two in the works right now, and one for the new book coming up called “Man Who Cannot Die” which is on the phantom shields. It's the first book published on this area of pop tribal shields from Waghi valley, Papua New Guinea. I have a group of colleagues that have collaborated with me to create this publication. We have over 70+ shields identified in this book, so my second project and next exhibition will be on these shields. I’d like to facilitate that, especially to collaborate with artists from each culture involved in this history, and artists represented this history to reclaim it, and what better way than working with them to represent these historical pieces of art that have been celebrated and rejoiced for centuries.

Okay, I have to ask you—as an art dealer, how are you dealing with COVID? Be honest, how’s stuff moving for you? What are some of the things that you’re dealing with? You know, people don't get to ask art dealers these things too often so it would be good for artists to know what are you doing, to get around the effects of this? 

Well, I feel like I’m a bit of an enigma in this because I’ve always worked in this sort of reclusive and private way, and that’s something that tribal art has influenced in me. I have worked from home for over a decade, it takes discipline to do it and balance is essential. Collecting also carries this secrecy, because people enjoy the privacy of owning these idolized figures and relics of the past. And this cloaking of secrecy doesn't stop, and collectors collect, especially when they’re spending more time at home. Not being able to see art has been my major negative in this situation as a dealer, as well as travel. Many of my clients and business is international, and I miss going to the art fairs. I also do cataloging and collection management which means I do understand what to do when you want to sell it, and having that in place and organized, relieves stress that this situation may cause people. Knowing you have a game plan protecting your investment or loved pieces can bring a lot of peace to someone especially in these times. I’m a lot busier with collections management and cataloging right now. 

Then selling work?

Oh, yeah. it’s quiet. I don't think people want to flaunt money anymore; that's a thing of the past. But collectors will continue to collect as an investment; it’s about the tangible investment of looking at your money and having it in your home and celebrating it. They're pulling their money from the market and into a more solidified investment, which is art. 

And history…?

Yes, and history. Really, what better way to spend your day? You sit and just stare and love, and then grab a book and learn about it, and you’ll always find something new about tribal art. You’ll always learn something else. And that's so important.  People are really starting to see how important historical context is, especially in today’s age where we are trying to create change, and there’s actually a dialogue happening… more people are collecting. But they’re buying art. Not stuff. Less stuff.